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crime, death sentence, Flavia Agnes, judgment, juvenile rapist, maximum comments, nirbhaya, rape, Shakti mills, survivor, verdict
Flavia Agnes calls herself a Feminist and Legal scholar.
Flavia Agnes terms the Shakti Mills Death-Verdict as “Too harsh on young boys from impoverished backgrounds.”
1. Too Harsh? : You know what I find harsh? Life for the Justice-Seekers(JS)
If you die, so much the better JS! We can swipe a collective tear, then build a mausoleum in your name, introduce a law in your name. Hell, even allow Mahesh Bhatt to pour it all on celluloid! Posthumous celebrity status for you, JS!
Of course, when it comes to enacting that particular law… We can deal with your obituaries. Just don’t remind us of our unkempt promises.
On the other hand, If you survive…what a blasted headache you are! We now need to take sides, judge, debate, juggle, evaluate. We now have a dual problem on our hands- rehabilitation of you and rehabilitation of the criminals. We are especially interested in the latter.
The JS survived. A Survivor, not a Victim. That , of course means
a] The crime was not heinous enough. I mean, no intestines hanging out, no metallic objects ripping internal organs. Nothing Serious.
Our standards have risen since that December. We need more gore before our blood boils. Ms Agnes, could you enumerate exactly how many gashes, fractures and liters of JS blood quantifies as ‘Heinous-enough’ for you?
b] She survived= She is strong enough. Mentally and physically. She will cope. She publicly declared that she will not allow this incident to rip apart her life. What a relief we don’t have to deal with a whiner!
But what about our bottled empathy? It needs a release and a recipient. Ah, might as well heap it on the ‘poor angel criminals’.
The criminals erred, therefore they are human. By default, they deserve human rights.
The JS has no human rights; because the JS is not human…just a bloody statistic. Such breath-taking clarity of thought!
2. Too young to punish; but not too young to sin: ‘‘Under-age’ as a terminology, a fundamental right, a loophole.
Let us reverse the roles. Underage JS; adult criminal. Does the Law have a special clause for this? Double punishment? Augment the sentence from Life to Death? Ms Agnes, do enlighten us.
3. Poverty trump card: Ms Agnes, Legal expert and Feminist, contributes another loop-hole for the benefit of criminals. Poverty!!!
Stealing out of poverty, begging out of poverty… I can still understand. Raping out of poverty??? I am zapped by the flights of your imagination, Ms Agnes.
The rich have 2 weapons to wriggle out of punishment: Bribery or Intimidation of the JS & family.
The poor now require even lesser efforts to escape harsh punishment. Just flash the poverty card.
NOTE: So, all you middle-class people…Don’t even think of it. You have a fairly decent job, middle-class values and a good upbringing. You don’t have the twin privileges of poverty and illiteracy.
Steer clear of Rape. You are neither rich enough nor poor enough to afford committing rape.
4. Rarest of Rare:
Ms Agnes says ‘The Death sentence will dilute the rarest of rare premise. Even if (Hold your breath!) the accused commit rape more than once, rape cannot be termed as ‘rarest of rare’ . Ah, such pearls of wisdom!
Since I do not claim to have legal expertise, please indulge me, Lady. Select the correct alternative from below:
The ‘rarest of rare’ term is applicable in relation to :
A.Criminal
B.Crime
C. Neither of the above
Ms Agnes would tick on option A; since she thinks ‘only one rape’ is not good enough. Her misguided angels will be demoralized for life if it appears on their resume. An Encore? Now she may consider it. Provided those intestines are hanging out.
What about 1 murder + 1 rape? What about 1 robbery + 1 rape? What sort of permutation and combination is ‘Heinous’ enough for Ms Agnes?
Of course, a crime is not officially an ‘Offense’ until
{i} reported by JS, {ii}registered by police {iii} proven in court. Until all 3 steps are complete, the offense remains off-record. For a ‘repeat offense’, please repeat all the above 3 steps.
Till such time, the criminal is innocent until proved otherwise.
Option B. She emphatically states that ‘Rape is not Murder’. Point appreciated. Sounds good on a Dais. Sounds good on paper. Solid one-liner punch. Yayy for Women-Power!
Only, it means nothing. Empty platitude. Hollow.
Every JS needs closure. She can never achieve it with the vitriolic certainty that her criminals still exist on Earth and that they still breathe. From being jobless miscreants, they have earned a lifetime of ensured food and ensured roof. On tax-payers money. Quite a progressive leap in their life!
If the JS is a working individual, a part of her salary will help maintain their existence. She has to live with that torture. Every single moment of her life. Still not rare and harsh enough, Ms Agnes?
I would opt for option C. I think ‘Rarest of Rare’ should apply to the JS. For a JS, the crime against her is the very ‘rarest of rare’ incident of her Life.
Her Life. How can anyone else decide it is not rare enough or heinous enough for her life?
Rape is not mere male vs female. It is one human being trampling, spitting and defecating on another human being’s right. Still not rare or heinous enough?
5. And lastly, Ms Agnes has empathy for the grieving, bereaved Family…of the Criminals!
I have often wondered how these jobless, good-for-nothing, penniless vagabonds suddenly metamorphose into The-Sole-support-and-Breadwinner of-our-Family?
Enough of misdirected sympathy. Zero tolerance , please, for these tactics.
But take heart, Ms Agnes. The future is bright for your misguided souls. They can keep appealing to the High Court, then Supreme Court, then the President. With every subsequent plea to a higher court, the JS has to again depose, again prove her statement and re-re-re-relive her nightmare. Still not rare enough, Ms Agnes?
If the President allows the file to decay long enough, the Court will automatically convert a Death to a Life sentence. See? There is an entire battalion of allies existing to cuddle and console your misguided angels!
Take heart, have Patience. Your sympathy will bear fruits. Ms Agnes, your misguided angels may still walk free.
P.S: Does every Court have a Bhagwad Gita? Open it once in a while. Chapter 2, Verse 11. “Do not lament for those who do not deserve lamentation.”
Poor, poor Krishna. No wonder Gandhari, holding up her scales, is having the last laugh in her corner. 
How does your country deal with Juvenile Delinquents?
Do you believe in Death sentence?
How many are too-many for you?
Will you react only when the criminal and the crime arrives at your doorstep?
Crime won, Nirbhaya lost …Read here for Dec 2015 judgment.

Asha manane murdad banalelya samaja kadun aanakhi kay apeksha karshil ? Shambhar gunhegar sutale tari chaltil pun eakahi niraparadhyala shikha zali nahi pahije asa aapala kayada sangato na !
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Yes, but 100 criminals roam around as 100 innocents. Free to commit further crimes.
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Mera bharat mahan , Asamanteme samanata ! Tyanchi vaye ,jaat – dharma sarva vegale pun krutya matra eakach ! He urakun hi Niragas ,garib bale konate nitimatteche dhade ghyayala ,konatya Thikani gele hote mahit aahe na ? Pudhachya satkrutyala sfurti , prerana ghyayala ?
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Where to, Momcy? Home, I guess, to watch TV in peace.
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I partially agree with you here.
There’s absolutely no defense or justification for such a heinous offence.
I feel such crime should be addressed with the harshest punishment that is with an effect of retribution, only that could deter people from commiting such crimes. It’s something they feel they can get away with, only making them go through the similar pain and torture could set right precedent in the society and compel people to think atleast twice before commiting rape.
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Hi Shefali, I’m glad a lawyer agrees. Why ‘partially’, though?
Do you think a judge feels like God when they mete out punishment?
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Hey sweetyshinde, well I really appreciate that you put forth your perspective towards this sensitive issue in a point to point and elaborate manner. Well, if you see the judge is under tremendous pressure while meting out punishment to any convict (ranging from setting up right and valid precedent to not letting the society have any sort of adverse impact) besides I guess the over conflicting views on capital punishment makes the judge feeble to some extent.
To the point of ‘partially’ I meant I do agree with your reasoning given but for the punishment, instead of capital punishment, it should be harsh for rarest of the rare crime, that too for such gruesome rapists I don’t think there’s any room for sympathy (irrespective of their age), it should be something like making them undergo chemical castration to make them realise just a part of the pain and suffering they had subjected the victim for their own ‘pleasure’ (I know it sounds cruel and inhumane) but I believe only this way it could act as a deterrent in the society orelse I don’t think it would be ever taken as something as serious as it by such people.
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Well castration would still keep them alive; with an added ‘insulted Ego’. It might just drive them into a revenge-mode. Who knows, they may spiral into a bout of killings of sundry women and children.
If it castration plus life imprisonment, then fine. But only castration with freedom to mingle with society, then No!
The perverse mentality comes from the mind. The body is just an instrument. It is not merely about lust; they have a deep seated mental block/perversion/viciousness.
In olden times, frontal lobe of the brain used to be surgically removed as a psychiatric treatment for aggression. Rememebr One flew over a cuckoo’s nest?
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It would seem that because these rapes and gang rapes have become so ‘common,’ they are losing out on the ‘rarest of rare’ credit. I am a catholic priest, and my church would Not agree with what I say, but that is because my church (too) is sleeping, and uncaring. I advocate breaking the legs of gang rapists and repeat rapists, or if castration is to be preferred, ‘Mechanical’ one, not the chem one.
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I still think the perversity originates from the sick mind and the body merely carries it out.
Death sentence, it has to be.
I do not want perverse amputees or perverse castrated criminals living on my tax money.
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1. My Dear, as You know, Everybody carries the TB germ, and similarly, Everybody has his/her Mortido.
2. Who is speaking of perverse amputees or castrated criminals living at our expense? Let them earn their own bread. But if they try to do it the next time, people would be able to teach them a lesson. They cannot run. Hopefully ALL their bones would be broken this time.
3. As for breaking the legs, at the risk of being called all kinds of things, I recommend that their ankles be broken. …They will have unending pain, just like their victims, and still be able to live.
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Make no mistake, the ‘Human Activists’ will make sure the amputees live on charity from our tax money. Even if they are put in prison, it is still our tax money that feeds them. That is what really riles me no end!
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There are a lot of reforms taking place lately pertaining to harassment in any form against females. It would be better to take it to it the next level of putting them into proper implementation which can majorly be done by us -‘females’, we need zero tolerance attitude towards such acts only then it can be addressed the way it should be. We need to explicitly disapprove any such behavior and shall convey our point to the opposite sex besides I feel it is the duty of every male to treat a female equally ( I wouldn’t say give special treatment or importance), it just has to be equal treatment or shoulder to shoulder acknowledgement.
Its going to be a huge struggle and a very gradual process for the kind of society we live in, but it definitely needs to be incorporated.
What do you think sweetyshinde ?
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I think the whole battle should not be made out as male vs female. In that process we alienate the numerous genuinely good males out there.
It should be ‘WE'(the men and women) against these perpetrators.
I have seen men wince and avoid a conversation when it veers towards these crimes, since we tend to make it too jingoistically male vs female.
secondly, the law has to be supportive of Samaritans. I mean, if I was a witness here, I would dread coming forth, knowing fully well how the police and court will make me depose time and again and ruin my schedule with dates/postponement/threats etc.
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Yes Sweety, you are right, that’s what I meant by categorically mentioning ‘such men’ – the perpetrators.
See there are different aspects per se dealing with this issue. One is changing the mindset of the people in general (that is to prevent the happening of any such event in the future- precautionary and preventive), second in an unfortunate event when rape takes place everybody (inclusive of eyewitness, police, doctor, judge, for that matter anybody who could be a part in facilitating the process of getting justice for the victim) shall see it as a part of their duty towards the betterment of the society. Third about the procedural aspect you should read the latest anti rape laws (Infact I am thinking of writing a post on it soon). My point is no matter how many statues enacted or laws amended, it’s only the people who could bring the required change, every individual needs to keep their conscience upright to deal with these issues.
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Oh, please post about the new laws. There is never any clarity on whether the law is being considered or passed. and if passed, is it being carried out?
Is that rudimentary 2 finger-test still used as evidence?
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Absolutely, incase of rarest of rare cases, the convict shouldn’t be set free after castration, must be kept in absolute isolation while inflicting physical pain and mental torture, should be left alone to die and introspect on their horrendous act. There’s no ‘reformation’ that could do any good to such criminals. They need the worse treatment, besides only such conviction could abstain perpetrators or atleast make them think twice before commiting the crime!
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An anda-cell is supposed to be a punishment of total isolation (or so I heard. Is it true?). The problem is, the prisons must be already overflowing ; what with the delayed and delayed and delayed legal procedures.
Is there no way to clear up crime cases faster?
I heard of a rape survivor die at age 92 years. The crime against her was perpetrated when she was in her 20s!!!
as a result of her death, the bastards now walk free. Such a mockery of the word ‘Justice’, isn’t it?
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‘Anda cells’ are basically egg shaped cells to keep hard core criminals with high security force (we have 8 such cells in Yerwada jail, Pune-remember where Kasab was kept?).
The problem with judiciary is that the conviction rate is too low mainly because of poor evidence and witness show before the court. However, keeping in view the past rape incidents, the latest Criminal act has been enacted which deals with few of the procedural flaws as well many other aspects. I’ll soon be posting an analytic view on the same. I hope that would be of help.
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Please do so soon. The lawless benefit because most of the commoners know nothing about the legal intricacies.
And legal language is so twisted and non-linear, one never knows how many loopholes exist.
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Haha, that’s true sometimes it requires too much of brainstorming and upshot is not even quenching, however I shall try my best to capture most of the aspects.
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Please do Shefali. You know the saying, ‘It is easy to confuse. It takes genius to simplify.’
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Conviction rates are slow NOT because of lack of evidence, but because Nasty things do not happen to politicos, judges and the police, etc. I would Not recommend that their daughters be raped so that this group becomes sensitive to issues. What I recommend it that ‘they,’ the ps, the js and the ps again, be gang raped, just for experience.
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…and lack of evidence is because the witnesses are killed, bribed or threatened. So it is an indirect method of reducing conviction rates.
Everytime I hear of a criminal going scot-free because the police filed the wrong charge sheet or because they did not make enough efforts to gather or preserve evidence, I think they should be punished as much as the criminal would have been.
Accountability is direly needed in India!
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I totally agree. You are raising some Very Big issues there!
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I wonder, if things are so clear to common man, why are they so blurred to those in charge and those who can bring about changes in law?
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They see things just as clearly. It suits them to keep things so.
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I agree with you. Ayn Rand’s book had a sentence that fits them, ‘They are maggots. they feed on sores.’
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Only, ulike maggots, these creatures know how to ‘create’ sores!
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Beautifully written !! We need to be harsh while punishing these rapists irrespective of age !!
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Hello Roopa, welcome here! I am so glad you agree. It is progressively getting sickening to hear Human Right Activists treat death sentence as some sort of pariah and taboo.
They argue that death sentence does not reduce the subsequent number of rape occurrences.
Well, in that case neither do murders or terrorist activities cease upon hanging the criminals. Will they argue in defense of Kasab too?
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JUST taking the case of kasab, I would say he was a brainwashed young man.
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Perhaps, but still a heinous criminal. Hanging him may not reduce the terrorist cells across the border (who knows, they may have made a hero and martyr out of him out there!); but we cannot spare him his personal crimes.
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As I have said, most of these terrorists are ‘Brainwashed.’ Such ppl can NOT AT ALL be held responsible for their actions, they the acts are heinous. Taking kasab’s example is bringing us to another field, away from juvenile criminals.
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Brainwashing is not a completely involuntary process. It does require the sanction of the brain-washed person. their hands are still blood stained and so is their vision.
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Sez You. Two simple things, choose the subjects when they are Young, or, figuratively, just point a gun at them.
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Hmmmm, it is possible that they threatened his family’s safety until he complied with their wishes. Why just figuratively, they may have an actual gun pointed, not at him but at his family’s head. as in the movie ‘Amir’.
But Kasab did not even seem repentant.
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When the idea, ‘killing others is ok,’ or ‘your god wants that you kill them,’ and things like that are INSTILLED, why should he ‘repent?’ kasab becomes an example because he got caught alive. And the whole of India wants to rejoice in taking its vengeance on him. He had been treated with a ‘living death’ of torture before he was killed. Every police force/agency knows how to inflict torture in a way that cannot be seen by camera. Why should he have repented?
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Hmm a criminal is the one who gets caught…not necessarily the one who commits a crime, I guess.
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Yes, that has jokingly been called as the 11th commandment: ‘Thou shalt not get caught!’
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11th and most important commandment! Hahaha.
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Errrr, Exactly!
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To me, sending a person to jail, in the ‘hope’ of reforming him, particularly in countries like India, is Absolutely meaningless. ‘Our’ jails, with sodomy as the first gift, would only turn out worse and more hardened criminals. Jails in Scandinavia seem to make sense.
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I would say jail is fine for petty crimes like pickpocketing. But definitely not for murder or rape or terrorism.
What do Scandinavian jails offer?
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You are right about terrorists being made into heroes and martyrs. Yes, the best way is to dispose of them, quietly.
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Absolutely. Unfortunately, the act is made into a political strategy, with the government, the defense attorney and the ATS all wanting to share the glory. So they publicise it, TV channels wanting the latest ‘bite’ also hype it up and public laps it up as entertainment.
I would not be surprised if the near future, hanging becomes a public ‘Reality Show’, like Saddam Hussein.
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But that raises some very big issues. The right to give the order for the death sentence gives that person absolute power. And as we know, absolute power corrupts absolutely! With our present politicos, judges, military and police officers, and even religious heads in power, We cannot trust them not to this.
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Hmm, interesting viewpoint there. So who will decide ultimately? God?
Judicial system is our way of appointing someone to take care of the decision-making process for us.
Or do we decide by majority public vote? There is no easy way out.
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Its sick the way some people are finding the verdict too harsh..nothing can be too hard for rape..and rape cant be termed a mistake..its a crime…irreversible..
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Yes Renu. And now some of the idiotic politicians have joined the bandwagon .
It just shows how deep the tendency to shield criminals and blame the survivors has become entrenched.
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You mentioned that sometimes crimes are blamed on social problems. I don’t think that social problems should never be an excuse to let someone off easy. But I can see how the problems could contribute, and that society should work on those issues.
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Hi.
Absolutely, some crimes do arise out of extreme poverty and desperation. But they are , as you mentioned, factors and not excuses.
Society can work on those on parallel lines; but society seems to take the easy way out. Blaming everything on that social factor absolves society of both things- Taking a firm stand on the criminal and of solving the grassroot problem which still remains unsolved.
But then there are many impoverished but decent men out there who toil, multitask, save, pinch their stomach and manage to survive without resorting to crimes. They are the ones society should assist to climb higher, instead of wasting pity on the undeserved. So I think.
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pseudo feminist pseudo secularists … wish the people of this country teach the flavias and mulayalams taught a lesson!!! But there lies the BIG PROBLEM… we only hav THY PEN!!!
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…which, unfortunately, may not be stronger than the sword (with which they cut off our voice). I think Democracy is a farce in India. Like Ayn Rand says in Fountainhead, ‘I saw the face of the Demon. Only, instead of being a single, gigantic menacing figure; they were multiple, diminutive, puny but as venomous’.
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Good discussion! For such heinous crimes no punishment is harsh enough!
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I am so glad to have a male voice here. I was almost beginning to think they succeeded in alienating this cause solely as a female problem. It isn’t.
It is very social problem. Thank you for the support.
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What are You talking about, Sweety? That shows You have Not gone through my nearly 20 posts on the rape problems! Keep counting me.
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I wish there were more like you. May your tribe increase.
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Thank You, my Dear Sweety. Your support and comment is Really Appreciated.
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Poverty is hardly and excuse for crime (it’s a cop out… sure, life can be more challenging, but circumstances can be overcome.) Here in the US, sometimes kids are tried as adults. I think it’s been several years now, but there was a case where an eight-year-old committed murder… huge debate about whether to try as a juvenile or adult. I don’t remember what was decided. Regardless of age, there should be harsh punishments for crimes. I do believe in the death sentence. I don’t think our taxpayer dollars should be spent to house criminals that have committed serious crimes. Light sentences basically condone criminal behavior and send a message that it will be tolerated.
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perfectly agree with you on every single word, Jannat! Tolerance has been misconstrued as weakness; and once mercy begins to be manipulated, the good ones are condemned to be slaves to the perverted ones.
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Agree with You that the death sentence is no big deal. But, to treat an 8 year old as an adult, …unless he was unnaturally cognisant and matured, this would be a rarest of the rare.
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When a 2 year old is raped and killed, why should her 8 year old sinner be given a reprieve? That is my argument against saving juvenile criminals. I do not agree that a survivor/victim has less rights than the criminal.
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Thank You for the Reply, Sweety. As my answer would be a bit long, as WordPress recommends and advises, shall write that in a post. Love and Regards.
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Punishment for such crimes should be quick and tough, and should act as a strong deterrent to any others who may be tempted to commit similar crimes in the future.
I’ve not read or heard Flavia Agnes’ complete statement. Could you provide a link? (I couldn’t locate one through Google.)
Please read my post http://proactiveindian.com/2013/08/31/if-a-woman-tells-you-she-has-been-raped/ and other posts tagged Sexual Harassment.
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I read it in the newspapers. I’m still old fashioned about getting the news in black and white print. But it was blazing away brazenly on the front pages.
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